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Michael They are very similar and yous tin can find information technology online for gratuitous if you chase a bit. Type the title an pdf.

Community Reviews

 · 4,970 ratings  · 497 reviews

Start your review of They Say / I Say: The Moves That Matter in Academic Writing

May 24, 2012 ballad. rated it really liked it

Recommends it for: people who want to improve their non-fiction writing

Very interesting premise, namely, looking at bookish writing as participating in a dialogue. Information technology's a fascinating idea that goes back to at least Greek roots in the Socratic dialogue. (Come to recall of it, some Eastern teachers use that technique every bit well; I'm just not well-versed in non-Western history). I think information technology'due south a technique that helps a educatee place their work in a larger conversation, and drag an academic essay above the "explanatory" work into a work that defends or promotes a viewpoin Very interesting premise, namely, looking at academic writing as participating in a dialogue. It's a fascinating idea that goes back to at least Greek roots in the Socratic dialogue. (Come to think of it, some Eastern teachers use that technique likewise; I'thousand just not well-versed in not-Western history). I recall it'south a technique that helps a student place their work in a larger conversation, and elevate an academic essay above the "explanatory" work into a work that defends or promotes a viewpoint. The writers' mission tin can exist summed upwardly: "Yet despite this growing consensus that writing is a social, conversational act, helping pupil writers really participate in these conversations remains a formidable challenge. This book aims to run into that challenge. Its goal is to demystify academic writing by isolating its basic moves, explaining them conspicuously and representing them in the class of templates."

Broken into four parts, the kickoff role is called, "They Say," and gives students examples of how to have a position, so summarize and quote others in their works. The second department, "I Say," leads the author how to reply to the "they say" arguments, and how to distinguish 1's own position from differing ones. (Incidentally, my professor had us read Martin Luther Rex's "Letters from a Birmingham Jail" which uses nearly every example of these techniques, and is a truly impressive essay. For that lonely, I'k grateful to her). The third section addresses analysis and conclusions, and shows how to connect the parts, using ane's ain voice and metacommentary.

The final department addresses writing within specific settings, namely, writing for scientific discipline, in the social sciences, entering class conversations and deciphering author viewpoints.

Each chapter ends with a few exercises which lead the reader through understanding the technique and how to implement it.

Contains templates to help showtime academic writers codify ideas, and has a number of specific suggestions throughout to help writers integrate these techniques.

Overall, an interesting read for an academic volume. Information technology was required reading for an English Composition form. I wouldn't accept heed having encounter this in high school or college when I offset started academic writing. Four stars for quality of ideas, approachability and useful techniques, if not actual enjoyment.

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Sep 01, 2015 Ayla rated it it was ok

My two stars are generous. If you lot need this book's awful templates to write a paper, yous have some serious literary remediation to do.

The templates, when strung together into a disjointed paragraph of concessions and cliches, brand for an amazingly deadening and unoriginal essay. Fifty-fifty when incorporated into an otherwise mediocre paper, they stand up out as obvious regurgitations of what the writer feels an academic paper "should" say.

Whatsoever scholar who pridefully publishes the words "I'm of ii mind

My ii stars are generous. If you need this book's awful templates to write a paper, you have some serious literary remediation to do.

The templates, when strung together into a disjointed paragraph of concessions and cliches, make for an amazingly boring and unoriginal essay. Fifty-fifty when incorporated into an otherwise mediocre paper, they stand out as obvious regurgitations of what the writer feels an academic paper "should" say.

Whatsoever scholar who pridefully publishes the words "I'm of two minds virtually X's merits that______. On the i hand, I agree that _____. On the other hand, I'm not sure if______." in that order will drastically dethrone his newspaper's quality and impairment his credibility in the reader's mind.

Forgiving the contractions and weak verbs, because bluntly I don't plan on writing an article on this template, this template lacks anything resembling style or interest to the reader.

"I'm of two minds..." Simply... no. Orwell would shit his pants reading that (read "Politics and the English Linguistic communication" if yous want realistic and apparent writing advice). The writer did admittedly no thinking in composing that phrase.

"1 the ane hand... on the other mitt..." I could accept that in a center schooler'south persuasive paper, though I'd blench a scrap.

"I'g not sure if ____" No, fuck off. You're not sure? That'south what yous say when the waiter mentions the eating place'southward special on fried squid testicles. Give me a articulate position and argue it. And stop with the damn contractions.

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Sep 15, 2009 Jack rated it really liked it

My writing is oftentimes competent, but not as effective every bit I'd like. I bought this expecting to screen it for employ every bit a corrective to my students. I plant information technology surprisingly useful for myself, although at a fairly detailed level. The virtually useful matter they say, which I should take known already, but didn't, is that it is critically important to retrieve that 1's academic writing is a contribution to an ongoing discussion that 1'southward reader likely has not been paying close attention to. As such, one nee My writing is often competent, but not as constructive every bit I'd like. I bought this expecting to screen it for utilise every bit a corrective to my students. I plant it surprisingly useful for myself, although at a fairly detailed level. The nearly useful thing they say, which I should accept known already, but didn't, is that information technology is critically important to remember that one's academic writing is a contribution to an ongoing discussion that one's reader likely has non been paying close attention to. Equally such, i needs to bring the reader up to speed on where the word was ("They Say"), to make it clear why one'south own contribution makes any sense. Useful. Not genius, merely useful

For your amusement: I came beyond it in Stanley Fish'due south provocative column on spending an entire semester trying to teach higher students how a sentence works.

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I was skeptical of the templates and worried that they would limit my students and lead to formulaic writing, simply instead they helped students organize their thoughts, express more complex ideas, and frame their arguments equally part of a larger conversation. Afterward only a few exercise with the templates, I noticed students incorporating them into their writing on their own and doing so effectively. Although I'chiliad happy with the results, the reason I'm not giving They Say, I Say more stars is firstly I was skeptical of the templates and worried that they would limit my students and lead to formulaic writing, but instead they helped students organize their thoughts, limited more circuitous ideas, and frame their arguments as part of a larger chat. Subsequently only a few do with the templates, I noticed students incorporating them into their writing on their own and doing so effectively. Although I'1000 happy with the results, the reason I'm non giving They Say, I Say more stars is firstly that it would have been amend equally an article rather than a book and secondly the authors suggest a much more than extensive use of templates than I call back is helpful for students. I would recommend using this book judiciously as a tool to help students organize their writing, but exist careful non to overdo information technology. I would rather have slightly disorganized writing expressing authentic ideas in students' individual voices than homogeneous, formulaic essays. ...more

For a book on academic writing, this was fantabulous. I wish this kind of thing, all the same, would exist promoted at a much broader level. The principles of this book are non simply for writing dissertations, but for having courteous conversations. Your response is only as expert equally your ability to listen. You tin can't even disagree (or know to agree) until you sympathize. Restate what you lot're hearing until the speaker is satisfied with your level of comprehension. Then, and only then, do you take the credibili For a volume on academic writing, this was excellent. I wish this kind of thing, even so, would exist promoted at a much broader level. The principles of this book are not just for writing dissertations, but for having courteous conversations. Your response is only as practiced as your ability to listen. You can't even disagree (or know to agree) until you empathize. Restate what you lot're hearing until the speaker is satisfied with your level of comprehension. And so, and only then, do you lot accept the credibility to offer a response. The more intelligent a chat, the more ceremonious it will be. As one of my professors one time said, "Charity precedes critique." This volume is a terrific exposition of that thought. ...more

When students on my campus are flagged for citation troubles and tried for plagiarism, one thing they take to practise is come to me for a plagiarism tutorial. Because students accidentally plagiarize (and sometimes not accidentally) for a lot of dissimilar reasons, I don't simply have a pre-packaged tutorial I transport them off to do. I'one thousand finding that most often, students only are non equipped to write nearly ideas they have found.

This book attempts to guide students through strategies for handling the id

When students on my campus are flagged for citation troubles and tried for plagiarism, one thing they have to do is come up to me for a plagiarism tutorial. Because students accidentally plagiarize (and sometimes not accidentally) for a lot of unlike reasons, I don't just take a pre-packaged tutorial I send them off to practice. I'm finding that most often, students just are not equipped to write about ideas they take found.

This book attempts to guide students through strategies for handling the ideas of others (even in the research and notetaking stages) and then how to signal they are using another's ideas in a newspaper. The authors so move into helping students understand how to write nearly their own ideas, which is another type of struggle. Entering the scholarly conversation can be terrifying!

The book is near useful in the offset half, with lists of ideas, examples of quotations handled properly, demonstrates effective paraphrasing, etc. The second half contains full essays for students to reference, merely I feel similar unless they are required to interact with them in a form setting, they are unlikely to read those. I'm not sure they need to be in the book.

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This is one of the nigh useful books I've ever encountered if you teach academic writing, reading, or critical thinking.
Some instructors might disagree, but I detect the utilise of templates very helpful for my students. In my opinion, it is not encouraging plagiarism to give the students a template to make information technology easier for them. (For case, "Author X makes an excellent betoken that_____, but I would besides add_____." They are non native English language speakers and it is crucial for them to be given a clear idea This is i of the nearly useful books I've e'er encountered if you teach academic writing, reading, or critical thinking.
Some instructors might disagree, only I find the apply of templates very helpful for my students. In my opinion, it is non encouraging plagiarism to give the students a template to go far easier for them. (For example, "Writer X makes an excellent point that_____, but I would too add_____." They are not native English speakers and information technology is crucial for them to be given a clear idea of what is expected. Once they go used to it, they can bend the rules!

The articles at the end of the book are all skillful reads, in addition to beingness great examples of academic written soapbox. I likewise respect the authors' position on the apply of start person . They say it'south acceptable, I more-or-less disagree only that is probably because my students have problems with it which may be particular to their cultural and linguistic background.
Finally, and most important, the author's main signal, that writing is a kind of conversation, makes a lot of sense and they actually develop this point clearly and effectively. Because of the focus on writing every bit a dialogue, this book is helpful for discussion and presentation skills besides every bit writing.

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The authors' aim is to help pupil writers take part in an academic conversation. Their definition of writing well consists of summarising current fence (they say) and setting upward one's own arguments (I say). Each chapter provides simple templates to help students make these motility in their own writing. For example,
"In discussions of 10, one controversial issue has been _____ . One the one manus, ____ aruges ____. On the other hand, ____ contends ____. Others even maintain _____ . My ain view is _ The authors' aim is to assistance student writers take part in an academic conversation. Their definition of writing well consists of summarising current contend (they say) and setting upwards 1's own arguments (I say). Each chapter provides elementary templates to help students make these motility in their own writing. For case,
"In discussions of X, one controversial result has been _____ . 1 the one hand, ____ aruges ____. On the other paw, ____ contends ____. Others even maintain _____ . My own view is _____."

Function One consists of three chaptres which encompass how to describe a viewpoint, how to summarise a discussion, and how to correctly quote others. Part Two contains four chapters, which cover means to respond to others' work, idetnifying i's own argument, introducing objections, and explaing the importance of a discussion. Part 3 covers how to connect arguments seamlessly, writing in an individual vox and a revision affiliate. Part Iv has specific advice for writers in the arts, sciences, and social scients. There are some weaker capacity on digital communications and verbal discussions.

This is an essential volume for xvi-eighteen year olds, and useful for first year undergraduates. Not-native English speakers at postgraduate level will also discover this book useful. Teachers tin use the exercises at the end of each chapter for form discussions or homework.

The paperback edition loses ane star for thin newspaper and for faint ink, which make the volume flimsy and unreadable. Another star was dropped for the patronising writing style. A book that I will probably return to, but not with savor.

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This is a very useful guide that introduces students to the basic concepts of belligerent writing at the higher level. Graff and Birkenstein stress that students think they are not writing in a vacuum merely rather to a particular audience every bit function of a larger ongoing conversation. Some of the templates they provide for students to incorporate into their writing are a little clichéd, sure ("On the one hand... On the other hand"), but they will help students who are but starting time to acquire how This is a very useful guide that introduces students to the basic concepts of argumentative writing at the college level. Graff and Birkenstein stress that students remember they are non writing in a vacuum but rather to a detail audience every bit part of a larger ongoing conversation. Some of the templates they provide for students to contain into their writing are a piddling clichéd, sure ("On the one mitt... On the other mitt"), merely they will assist students who are merely beginning to larn how to write critically.

(It's non, later all, necessarily an intuitive skill—one of the things that left me confused and anxious as an undergrad was getting back papers with comments that read, in their entirety, "More assay." Now when I look dorsum at my earliest piece of work, I can see clearly what my professors meant; and so, I thought that that was what I was doing and couldn't effigy out how to do better.)

Graff and Birkenstein's templates are like preparation wheels for pupil writers, helping them to codify ideas in ways that are new to them and hopefully to be discarded equally limerick and analytical skills improve. "They Say/I Say" is as well a useful volume for instructors to read, as information technology provides several reminders of the kinds of things that may now be second nature to u.s. but which are likely to be stumbling blocks for students.

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I could capeesh this book as a great read for beginning writers, just I firmly believe that writing is learned by practice of inventiveness, not template. I personally feel that this volume was too template-focused and did not emphasize the writers natural flow of words enough.

I read the start edition of this book in my freshman composition course and now I teach the fourth edition to the students in my freshman limerick class. It'south wild out hither. I read the showtime edition of this volume in my freshman composition class and now I teach the 4th edition to the students in my freshman composition course. It'due south wild out hither. ...more than

I've taught the shorter, rhetoric-based version of this text before, and now, subsequently having moved abroad from it to teach other texts that seemed fifty-fifty more "democratic" than this, I'm returning to this text next semester because other texts simply don't inspire students to begin writing with near equally much purpose and confidence every bit this one does. I've ordered my re-create of the 2d edition, really, which comes out on 15 November 2011. The rhetorical chapters haven't changed;
I'g sure they'll contain edi I've taught the shorter, rhetoric-based version of this text before, and at present, later having moved abroad from it to teach other texts that seemed even more "democratic" than this, I'm returning to this text next semester considering other texts simply don't inspire students to begin writing with near equally much purpose and confidence as this one does. I've ordered my copy of the 2nd edition, actually, which comes out on 15 November 2011. The rhetorical capacity haven't changed;
I'm sure they'll contain edits, perchance a few updated examples, only the "moves," from summarizing to quoting to responding to saying why it matters, haven't been altered. What they've washed is added another ready of readings to the orginal sets, which dealt, respectively, with fast food, pop culture, economic mobility, and the notion that the American way of life is under assault. As well, they've updated each of these sets past adding several more than timely essays, notably essays by Michelle Obama, David Foster Wallace, and Tom Bissell. ...more than

Dec 08, 2008 Rashaan rated it it was ok

Informative in terms of getting ideas for pinning downwardly points of view and learning specific terms and phrases for rhetorical modes like comparison/contrast or transitioning between paragraphs, etc--but I'm very wary, very very wary of using templates. Inevitably, templates go besides formulaic, and the students end upwardly regurgitating the same terms, phrases, and words without any originality or creativity in wielding our English language language. Informative in terms of getting ideas for pinning downwards points of view and learning specific terms and phrases for rhetorical modes like comparison/contrast or transitioning between paragraphs, etc--but I'm very wary, very very wary of using templates. Inevitably, templates go likewise formulaic, and the students stop upwardly regurgitating the same terms, phrases, and words without any originality or creativity in wielding our English language. ...more

2006, Literary crutches aren't the worst thing: learning to listen and write in the age of LOL

I am so grateful for Gerald's Graff and Cathy'south Birkenstein effort to lay down the rhetorical steps for dialogical writing. This volume has opened my eyes to the countless mistakes I was and still am making. An splendid volume!

notes:
-other opinions aside your own should be conveyed correctly and in practiced faith - this means the onnus is on the writer to listen
-don't assume the reader knows everything. Expl

2006, Literary crutches aren't the worst thing: learning to listen and write in the age of LOL

I am so grateful for Gerald's Graff and Cathy'due south Birkenstein effort to lay down the rhetorical steps for dialogical writing. This book has opened my eyes to the endless mistakes I was and withal am making. An first-class book!

notes:
-other opinions aside your own should exist conveyed correctly and in good faith - this means the onnus is on the writer to listen
-don't presume the reader knows everything. Explain quotes, add metacommentaries (reformulate your explanation with more than clarity, demystify, reinforce the indicate y'all were making)
-include every bit many points of view as it is sensible and and allow them to collaborate with your original thesis
-"John Stuart Manufactory pointed upwards the connection when he observed that we do not empathise our own ideas until we know what tin exist said against them."(Clueless in Academe)
-institute the seed of uncertainty
-proper name the beholder of the opposing view
-there is besides much of a thing as dissimilarity
-the world is total of passive receivers of cognition
-instead of retaliation, argument
-be receptive to other perspectives
-ideas should flow from one paragraph to the other; the argumentation should be easy to follow

My former choleric review:

Modern society is founded on the premise that difference of opinions implies more dialogue than conflict, isn't it. If that'due south the case, why is the simple act of refusing to exist like everyone else, oftentimes, a punishable offense? Or is my following perspective simply also pessimistic?

Dialogue? Unabridged discourses about learning to collaborate with others accept been perorated by expert soliloquists. Length is now frowned upon no matter what. We speak in:
•bullet points.
At that place can be no "overture". Skip that. Mention this in a letter to an alien and he'd exist perhaps inclined to think we've reached some sort of enlightenment while we got rid of the agenda of pesky initiations and Minerva won. We've even abbreviated abbreviations (ONS). Thus, the future looks bright for whatsoever type of orgasms nosotros look frontward to. Nosotros've finally washed information technology. We're non conflictual anymore. We're anesthetized.

Conflict? Gone are the days when ideological wars were sparked between writers of substance, decrepit Mars has long retired in a yoga centre. Instead of Camus vs Sartre nosotros have Franzen vs Oprah's book club (https://youtu.exist/uPCB29a63W4). No Zola'due south are rushing in any affairs. To be fair, we accept Zizeks, Petersons and other princes of YouTube, as one Hashemite kingdom of jordan Foisy of Vice argues (although nothing in his writing would brand you call back he'due south past fourteen). I agree in that location are interesting and even valuable discourses taking identify present, but I doubt nosotros can truly look up to people who contemplate divine percepts while selling you lot mugs or dating advice or any the hell else. What I'chiliad trying to say is that everyone is then very unremittingly...in your face. I wonder if debates would take place away from public optics between our "Youtube lords". You think they'd bother if it weren't for the tickets? I don't know, you tell me. Any type of caxtons are published, equally if an intransigent paranoid invisible commission is enervating u.s.a. to release everything imaginable in club to somehow prove we uphold democratic values. This is just a light variation on Fahrenheit 451 - you encounter, there is no need to burn all the books -is it meliorate to flood the libraries with annihilation?

Is there an intellectual need that is more than acute than the need to exist heard? Even solitude yearns to be understood, and this is why Gerald's Graff and Cathy's Birkenstein effort to lay downwards the rhetorical steps for dialogical writing matters. After all, it'due south better to avoid Repeat's religion, who was punished to repeat the last words of others. https://world wide web.dailymotion.com/video/x2o...

Practice we use writing every bit a mean to engage in dialogue with others or every bit another tool for nurturing uncritical thinking? Scott Adams, the creator of Dilbert points out about grouping writing (only applies to other '-ings'):The chief goal of group writing is to ensure that every sentence satisfies all the objectives of every person in the room. This can exist problematic if all the participants accept different objectives. You can minimize the touch of dissimilar objectives past focusing on the goals that all parties tin can agree on:
i. Don't convey any information whatsoever. two. Meet number one.(The Dilbert Principle) The clear implication is that there's no new information getting through as long every bit dissension is avoided with all cost. This is what happens when parents (mostly the new historic period mothers) tell their kids that in life in that location are no wins. Maybe information technology's a new form of punishment, a successful substitute for the beatings from back in the days?

They say/ I say reminded me that the social predicaments of our times shouldn't rob us of our opinions. That the truthful writer isn't a vehicle for validating the myth of the lone genius, just more similar to the village drunkard, who, depending on his God-given predispositions, either fights or sings with everyone. And the more tame of us are neither loners or drunkards or clowns of that caliber, merely animals capable of a more balanced act (unlike this review). Even if "Readers and writers are united in their need for solitude, in the pursuit of substance in a time of always-increasing evanescence: in their reach inwards, via print, for a fashion out of loneliness.", that does not hateful that "The first thing that reading teaches the states is how to be alone." If anything, that is the last thing I'd like reading to teach me.

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A fantastic, actually helpful resource for academic writers.

It's very liberal/lefty, but that's exposed but in the pieces the authors selected for critique. The writing advice itself is very good.

I read the third edition, from 2016, which contains actress chapters on literature and modern Net technology. This audiobook version as well contained some excerpts at the cease from essays and short stories to use for practical exercises.

Leave it to Norton Publishing to create a handy guide like this. A

A fantastic, actually helpful resources for academic writers.

It's very liberal/lefty, but that'due south exposed only in the pieces the authors selected for critique. The writing advice itself is very expert.

I read the 3rd edition, from 2016, which contains extra chapters on literature and mod Internet technology. This audiobook version also independent some excerpts at the terminate from essays and short stories to use for practical exercises.

Leave it to Norton Publishing to create a handy guide like this. A truly great addition to whatever writer'south personal shelf, or in combination with some other textbook or text.

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The first portion of the book was really interesting! It gave me some good ideas for how to make my writing more interesting and understandable to all readers.
Yet, the manufactures or "readings" department was non as interesting or skilful, in my opinion. The first portion of the book was really interesting! It gave me some practiced ideas for how to make my writing more than interesting and understandable to all readers.
However, the manufactures or "readings" section was not as interesting or good, in my opinion. ...more

Jan 08, 2019 Sean rated it really liked it

iv.five Real proficient stuff. Worth reading for anyone. The best "argumentation" teacher/student guide I've run across so far. 4.5 Real practiced stuff. Worth reading for anyone. The best "argumentation" teacher/student guide I've come across and then far. ...more

Bones but in the exceedingly helpful kind of way. I'm sure I will reference this more in the future. Basic merely in the exceedingly helpful kind of way. I'k sure I will reference this more in the time to come. ...more

Wow, I was super impressed at how useful and informative this was without the pretense of "you don't know how to write so we'll attempt to teach you but from our pedestal on loftier".

Instead, this one literally said, we know writing is difficult simply we also know writing can be revised to be meliorate too. Don't you want to exist understood? Here are templates, yep, templates, you're welcome.

And to this I say thank you. Information technology reinforced behavior, dispels myths, and by and large cares to help with a variety of chapters

Wow, I was super impressed at how useful and informative this was without the pretense of "you don't know how to write so nosotros'll try to teach you but from our pedestal on high".

Instead, this one literally said, nosotros know writing is hard merely we also know writing can be revised to be meliorate too. Don't yous desire to be understood? Here are templates, yes, templates, you're welcome.

And to this I say thank you. It reinforced beliefs, dispels myths, and more often than not cares to help with a variety of chapters on whatever you demand. I similar it's quick compact size. My simply issue is the tissue-paper thin paper that might rip easily when using!

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Oct 16, 2010 Michelle rated information technology really liked it

This book, given to me by my love friend Scott who studied under Gerald Graff, singlehandedly improved my essays. It seems weird to have templates for writing essays, but they gave me amend ideas about how to enter conversations in my essays and how to move from i paragraph to the next. I had my students read the whole book and then asked them to have 7 out of the 10 elements in their essays. The only things that I've noticed to exist confusing for people is their absolute negativity towards usi This book, given to me past my dear friend Scott who studied under Gerald Graff, singlehandedly improved my essays. Information technology seems weird to have templates for writing essays, but they gave me improve ideas about how to enter conversations in my essays and how to move from 1 paragraph to the next. I had my students read the whole book and then asked them to accept 7 out of the 10 elements in their essays. The only things that I've noticed to be confusing for people is their absolute negativity towards using "I" in essays (then I've figured out means to be personal without using "I" or "me" or whatever else is taboo in a lot of academic writing), and the fact that people don't know how to fit the x elements neatly into the five-paragraph essay considering the volume doesn't really get over essay system.

Don't get me wrong, the five-paragraph essay form has been corking in getting a lot of people to acquire how to write essays. But somewhere after the first year of writing them, it'due south fourth dimension to move on and you lot just take to see how to really organize essays, five paragraphs or 2,000 paragraphs. So I would at least add to this book my advice that you should write your introduction and your conclusion concluding. Because you never actually know what's going to happen in your writing until y'all're done. And fifty-fifty when you are writing the introduction and conclusion, sometimes y'all'll detect something new that needs to be incorporated into the body. So I gauge there's one more thing--do NOT ever come up with some new ideas in your conclusion. A decision should actually exist called a "summary" in my opinion.

Wow, can you tell I have a lot of thoughts on this? E-mail me if you lot want aid with your essay. Ha.

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This book was used for my form, The Writing Process. My class was 12 weeks long and having to use this volume for 12 long weeks was excruciating. In my opinion, Graff does not give the pupil enough credit, as this neat petty volume tries to practice all the piece of work for y'all! Just fill in the blanks. I likewise thought this volume was biased, sometime fashioned in some of its stories. I saw it as an agenda for a higher professor and one-time MLA President to get colleges to use his volume. I think this is a conflict of This book was used for my class, The Writing Process. My grade was 12 weeks long and having to use this volume for 12 long weeks was excruciating. In my opinion, Graff does non give the educatee plenty credit, as this neat little book tries to do all the work for you! Just fill up in the blanks. I also thought this book was biased, old fashioned in some of its stories. I saw it as an agenda for a higher professor and quondam MLA President to get colleges to apply his book. I think this is a conflict of involvement. He thinks he knows what the American Experience is. He defines street smarts in a unique way, non exactly what I have seen as a definition in my lifetime. He assumes too much for the reader. He should have given us more credit. I accept to apply this book for my adjacent grade also... ...more

3.5 stars.
Assigned textbook for class. This book is made up of well-nigh 1/3 didactics fabric and two/3 essays, articles, speeches, etc. intended for reading/discussions/form assignments. Overall, I thought it did a pretty practiced chore. The "They Say/I Say" function was articulate and easily understood. Good examples were provided. The readings were divided into five main themes, and were pretty interesting. Some were new to me, and some familiar. (Some of the readings seemed a teensy scrap dated now, but not too 3.five stars.
Assigned textbook for grade. This book is made up of virtually 1/3 didactics material and 2/3 essays, articles, speeches, etc. intended for reading/discussions/grade assignments. Overall, I thought it did a pretty good job. The "They Say/I Say" role was clear and hands understood. Good examples were provided. The readings were divided into v chief themes, and were pretty interesting. Some were new to me, and some familiar. (Some of the readings seemed a teensy bit dated now, but not too bad.)

Thoughts while reading: As far every bit a textbook goes, this one contains skilful information in an easy-to-understand and succinct form. However, I sure am noticing a lot of typos, and missing citations and/or attributions. Needs more proofing??? (Authors, get out the red pencil.)

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January 29, 2008 Mary rated it really liked it

I call back I would accept hated this book if I were assigned it every bit a freshman in college. But I was kind of an asshole then, as are about college freshman.

As such, high school seems the meliorate forum to teach a lot of these very basic writing skills. I used this to assistance me scaffold a persuasive newspaper I assigned to eleventh graders and they actually seemed to appreciate the help. Graff breaks down the elements of good academic persuasive writing into such useful, manageable chunks that it was a breeze to

I call back I would have hated this volume if I were assigned it equally a freshman in college. But I was kind of an asshole so, as are most college freshman.

As such, high school seems the better forum to teach a lot of these very basic writing skills. I used this to help me scaffold a persuasive paper I assigned to eleventh graders and they really seemed to appreciate the assistance. Graff breaks downward the elements of adept academic persuasive writing into such useful, manageable chunks that it was a breeze to pattern mini-lessons around them. I never used the text itself with the kids, only it came in really handy in the planning stages.

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They Say I Say is i of my favorite composition textbooks. Information technology explains writing in a way that students can understand, and it opens the world of academic soapbox to them. The readings in this edition were timely and well-chosen. Over the years that I've used this book, I've go more than and more than impressed with it. They Say I Say is ane of my favorite composition textbooks. It explains writing in a style that students tin empathise, and it opens the globe of bookish discourse to them. The readings in this edition were timely and well-called. Over the years that I've used this volume, I've become more and more impressed with information technology. ...more than

We covered Chs. 1-seven in ENG 1304 at Baylor. Some sections are clearly biased towards a politically correct agenda, but ofttimes slivers of sanity slip through the cracks. If it weren't for the apparently liberal bias, I'd give information technology four stars—it's got actually first-class advice for writers. We covered Chs. 1-7 in ENG 1304 at Baylor. Some sections are clearly biased towards a politically correct agenda, but often slivers of sanity slip through the cracks. If it weren't for the obviously liberal bias, I'd requite information technology iv stars—it'south got really splendid advice for writers. ...more

Clear book that is helpful for anyone writing an academic/argumentative newspaper. I honey the templates-- they are specially helpful when teaching others about writing. I appreciate the chapter on language/phonation as well.

In "They Say / I Say," Graff and Birkenstein seek to demystify the critical and belittling "moves" that are essential to academic writing. The book is actually designed equally a toolkit, laying out the various moves that writers make when engaging critically with an idea. The authors fifty-fifty including a set of make full-in-the-blank "templates" for students seeking to make such moves.

The nearly of import motility that the writer's place is the one that gives the book its proper noun. Graff and Birkenstein signal out t

In "They Say / I Say," Graff and Birkenstein seek to demystify the disquisitional and analytical "moves" that are essential to academic writing. The book is really designed as a toolkit, laying out the various moves that writers make when engaging critically with an idea. The authors fifty-fifty including a set of backup-the-blank "templates" for students seeking to brand such moves.

The most of import movement that the author's identify is the i that gives the book its name. Graff and Birkenstein bespeak out that meaningful positions are always developed in response to or in conversation with the words and ideas of those who have already spoken. Thus they contend that a basic initial move for making an argument is to give the context within which the statement is existence put forward. What is the electric current land of the debate? What exercise "they say"? It is simply within the framework of the status quo, they suggest, that it makes whatever sense at all for united states to add our own perspective ("I say"). This dialogical arroyo (the authors open their preface with a nod to Bahktin) also emphasizes the living nature of argumentation. By imagining themselves in dialogue, students can begin to understand the ever-unfinished business of making pregnant, the significant role of analogy and order in building their arguments, and perhaps even the importance of maxim what they mean in terms that make misunderstanding less probable.

As a bones first footstep toward meliorate pupil writing, the importance of the first half of the "They say / I say" equation cannot be understated. In my experience, one of the nigh pervasive habits that weakens the ability of educatee writing is their inattention to nuances and meaning in textual material from which their writing is meant to jump. Commodity responses and blogs in my classes oftentimes endure from a astringent case of "I think" syndrome, wherein stance is piled upon opinion, without any sense of a larger world. These students know how to "apply evidence" insofar as this is understood to mean "add together reasons." Fifty-fifty when I require students to "cite textual evidence," this "show" is in general added "to help prove" such and such a point. The nuances of the author'southward original argument, the conversation of which is was a part, is lost in the surface-level "appeal to authority."

In this regard, Graff and Birkenstein's templates are pretty ingenious. Far from being "cheat-sail" fill-in-the-blank exercises, the templates are designed to pull back the curtain on the kinds of syntactic relationships that are available to academic writers. As a rather complex instance in point, take the following template, which comes from the department of the text dedicated to "Disagreeing, with Reasons":

By focusing on ______, X overlooks the deeper problem of _____.

Far from doing the hard piece of work of disquisitional thinking for a pupil, such a formulation opens up the field of possible thinking to include a more nuanced understanding of authorial intention. The template gains its ability considering information technology exposes a possibility for weakness or disagreement (one based on an author's myopic focus) that a student might otherwise miss because she doesn't know such a position is possible. Moreover, the relationship betwixt a source text (a "they say") and the pupil's own ideas (the "I say") that the template sets up emphasizes the dialogic nature of a student'south claims. Within the formula, the educatee is asked to encounter her own ideas equally growing out of a particular grievance, weakness, or consequence with the ideas of another thinker. The work of "filling in the blanks" is past no means easy: specificity and clarity of expression are demanded on both sides of the equation, and for whatever given text at that place are more incorrect, confusing, or meaningless, ways to fill these blanks than in that location are cogent and thoughtful responses. Yet, the power of these templates lies in the manner that the outline new sets of possibilities for interacting with the ideas of other thinkers. Such patterns, the authors rightly suggest, take become habits of listen for experienced writers. By throwing focus on them, they say, nosotros can help struggling students practise them more than deliberately.

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Jul xviii, 2018 Loretta rated it it was amazing

They Say/I Say contends that good writing is always dialogic; it is e'er participating in a chat. While this may seem like an obvious point, it is non always obvious to higher students, who often assume that all a adept writer needs to do is present his or her own ideas, full end. Instead, Graff and Birkenstien argue, responsible scholarship acknowledges ongoing debates and seeks to respectfully participate in them--by like-minded with the views of others, disagreeing, or agreeing and di They Say/I Say contends that skilful writing is always dialogic; it is always participating in a conversation. While this may seem similar an obvious signal, information technology is non always obvious to college students, who often assume that all a good writer needs to do is present his or her own ideas, full end. Instead, Graff and Birkenstien fence, responsible scholarship acknowledges ongoing debates and seeks to respectfully participate in them--by agreeing with the views of others, disagreeing, or agreeing and disagreeing (agreeing to a bespeak).

Subtitled "The Moves That Matter in Bookish Writing," They Say/I Say treats the art of writing equally almost a game--one that anyone can learn--by including templates that boil the art of bookish dialogue downward to its simplest components (eastward.g. "A number of ____ have recently suggested that ____"; "Conventional wisdom has it that _____"; "While I empathise the impulse to____, my own view is____" etc.). With these, Graff and Birkenstein give students building blocks to create their ain arguments, much in the fashion that musicians ofttimes work with formulaic motives to improvise complex pieces. Far from stifling creativity, then, the authors inspire it. We all learn by imitating, and They Say/I Say contains much practiced material for imitation.

I expect forward to using this volume with my students.

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It was alright. Virtually of the points they make are relevant, merely for anyone by 9th or 10th grade they made seem a little obvious. Of course, every bit in all things, I call up the value of this volume depends on the individual reader's personal knowledge and style of learning. For some, this book could be completely unnecessary. But for others, information technology could be a life saver. When you lot become to the bottom of it though, they practise brand proficient points, fifty-fifty if they are nearly more than basic, key parts of writing. My only It was alright. Most of the points they brand are relevant, just for anyone past 9th or 10th grade they made seem a little obvious. Of course, as in all things, I call back the value of this volume depends on the individual reader'south personal knowledge and fashion of learning. For some, this book could be completely unnecessary. Merely for others, it could be a life saver. When you go to the bottom of information technology though, they exercise make practiced points, fifty-fifty if they are about more basic, fundamental parts of writing. My but truthful critiques would be that it can exist a bit repetitive and that for the terminal two parts of the book the value of each chapter is striking or miss. They seem to stray a bit from the original topic in the last two parts and some of the last chapters are only summaries of the first two parts of the book, but in a slightly dissimilar light. So for this book I would for the most part suggest not reading information technology every bit a whole. Instead, it would be improve to cull one or ii of the chapters that focus on one of your weaknesses or a topic of interest to yous and read just them. ...more

Jul 15, 2017 Barbi Faye (The Book Fae) rated information technology liked it  · review of another edition

Recommends it for: Authors,

Recommended to Barbi Faye (The Volume Fae) by: Writers

A cute fiddling book (in size) to help out people who are writers, authors, or highly bookish to assist in creating writing that helps link what your writing and other people's writings. Information technology provides fantabulous, descriptive ways of telling and also integrating others' voices with their ain ideas, providing templates for bridges between the two. Basically, links betwixt what "They say/I say"; a manual. Or, in the fabled GoodReads World, it is a grand helper for someone who writes at least a review A cute piffling book (in size) to help out people who are writers, authors, or highly bookish to aid in creating writing that helps link what your writing and other people'due south writings. It provides excellent, descriptive ways of telling and likewise integrating others' voices with their own ideas, providing templates for bridges between the two. Basically, links between what "They say/I say"; a manual. Or, in the fabulous GoodReads World, information technology is a grand helper for someone who writes at least a review every day, and must dovetail what I say and write, with what an author has written or quoted, or with what someone else has written or quoted. As well, it'south nice to be learned and articulate, considering sometimes the words don't come very easy. A lot in a niggling book, check information technology out! ...more

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